Physical Gold and Paper Gold Battling for Supremacy: Brien Lundin
Source: Alec Gimurtu of
The Gold Report (6/12/13)
The recent drop in gold prices is a confirmation, or a revelation, to
investors of the battle between the physical and paper gold markets. In
this interview with
The Gold Report, Brien Lundin, editor of
Gold Newsletter,
predicts the timing of a handoff from Asian physical demand to Western
speculative demand and assesses the readiness of the junior market to
respond to a revival in commodity prices. Plus, in a tip to Father’s
Day, he discusses his efforts to groom the next generation of investors.
The Gold Report: In your latest newsletter, you
advocate that gold investors pay close attention to the Federal Reserve
meeting taking place on June 18. What are you looking for out of that
meeting?
Brien Lundin: The main driver for gold right now is
quantitative easing (QE). An investor trying to figure out where the
gold market is heading in the near to intermediate term needs to focus
on QE. Investors should look for clues to the future prospects of the
Fed’s QE program—that’s what’s going to drive gold in the short and
intermediate term. The question really is: To QE or not to QE? The next
Fed meeting will be a prime indicator of that, and the one after that
and the one after that.
My general view is that the reports of a resurgent U.S. economy are
way ahead of themselves and some data points are indicating that the
recovery is not that robust and may even be in danger. The jobs numbers
will shed some light on this. If such a scenario develops, then the snap
back for gold would be pretty dramatic. A weakening U.S. economy would
be bullish for gold because it’s bullish for continued QE, and that’s
the real factor for gold going forward.
TGR: Besides the jobs numbers and the Fed meeting minutes,
what indicators are you watching to get some insight into whether the
economy really is improving?
BL: People need to listen to the Fed. The Fed is trying to be
more open and transparent, despite the typical central banker
doublespeak. But it is looking at two numbers right now: jobs and
inflation. The jobs number is predominant because every indicator that
economists currently use to measure inflation is showing no significant
inflation. Now, the consumer price index (CPI) is not the CPI of our
fathers, and it has been jiggered here and there to underreport price
inflation. Regardless, until we start seeing price inflation in the CPI,
the Fed will be more conducive to easing. The unemployment numbers,
however, are where we’ll see some real action or perhaps some tapering
if the unemployment rate starts to improve.
TGR: What’s your take on the price behavior in the precious metals markets? Where do we go from here?
BL: I think the big price action that’s happened in gold over
the last six weeks or so is a big revelation. It has revealed the
character of the modern gold market, which has developed into a West
versus East or paper gold versus real gold market. In the West, there
are speculators who invest in the future exchanges primarily. They are
more concerned about the short-term direction for gold and the other
precious metals. The future exchanges are really nothing more than an
opinion poll on the price of gold. It’s not really a place where real
metal gets bought and sold but, rather, the futures market is a place to
trade derivatives. In a real sense, it is fractional reserve investing.
In mid-April, when we had the big smackdown in gold, over 400 tons
sold on the Comex. In a matter of an hour or two the amount of metal
sold exceeded, by over 100 tons, the amount of gold in the Comex
warehouse. The Comex trading on that day had no relation to the physical
markets. Conversely, the price drop resulting from that selloff spurred
physical demand throughout the world, but particularly in
price-sensitive markets in Asia.
One of the things people looked at throughout all of this was the big
drawdown in the exchange-traded funds (ETFs) of physical gold. Since
the beginning of the year, the remarkable drawdown in the ETFs amounted
to around 370 tonnes of gold. Over that same timeframe, I estimate that
more than 600 tonnes of gold have been consumed in China alone. And that
doesn’t include the huge demand in India or the rest of Asia. It also
doesn’t include the surging physical demand for gold in the Western
markets or the renewed central bank demand. If you add it all up, I
think that price smash in April did nothing but increase global gold
demand.
TGR: How does an investor get data on increased physical consumption worldwide?
BL: It’s tough. I’ve tried to compile these numbers many times
before. You get some information from the World Gold Council. Now, you
get some information from the Shanghai Gold Exchange, which, although
it’s a futures market, represents more of a physical market in China.
You look at imports through Hong Kong into China. Indian import data is
more difficult. And you have anecdotal reports of demand. The World Gold
Council is the only group that actually tries to sum up all of these
totals, and it doesn’t offer much in the way of real-time information.
So it’s really tough, but there are seasonal trends that investors or
retail investors need to keep in mind.
Unfortunately, although we’ve had tremendous physical demand
providing an underpinning for the market recently, we’re entering the
seasonal slow period of early to mid-summer for physical gold demand.
One of my concerns is that as physical demand lessens, we may see some
resulting price weakness in gold.
TGR: That was the commodity, but what about the miners? During this pullback, have most miners mirrored the underlying commodity?
BL: Yes, mirrored and magnified. The good thing about the
mining equities is that they tend to leverage the moves in gold and
silver. The bad news is that they tend to leverage the moves in gold and
silver. In this cycle, as the metals have dropped, the equities have
absolutely been lambasted. I tell my readers that there is too much
uncertainty in the near term.
The longer-term picture remains very bright for the metals because
the world’s governments are going to continue to float their economies
on an ocean of new liquidity for the foreseeable future. So the
fundamental economic backdrop for gold and, ultimately, the equities
remains bullish. But in the near term, especially as we get into the
seasonal slow period for physical demand, too much risk exists out
there. I’m advising people to keep their heads low, be patient and wait
for mid to late summer before they make any new purchases.
TGR: It’s a little bit of a risk-off trade for the mining
equities. Does that mean you are weighted toward producers rather than
explorers?
BL: In a very general sense, the producers will benefit much
more quickly from a rebound in the precious metals. With that said,
there are specific juniors that are hot on the trail of big, new
discoveries and/or are expanding discoveries with the drill bit right
now. The juniors have always been more of a news-driven sector. So
looking at the broad sector, it will take a while for enthusiasm to
filter down through the producers, through the majors and down to the
juniors, but specific companies could have significant and
company-making news in that meantime.
TGR: You mentioned juniors and then producers. One company that has attributes of both that you have followed for a long time is
New Gold Inc. (NGD:TSX; NGD:NYSE.MKT).
It was a junior several years ago, and grew into a midtier. It recently
acquired Rainy River Resources Ltd. Is this the start of a new trend in
consolidation in the sector?
BL: I hope so, but New Gold is kind of a special case. It’s a very well-run, very aggressive company. Our readers in
Gold Newsletter have
benefitted from that for years, as that company has been one of our
recommended producers. It is much more aggressive than the rest of the
producer flock, but that’s really not saying a lot because nobody has
been very aggressive recently. I hope it’s the beginning of a trend, but
New Gold has always been a bit of a special case. It has been able to
move quickly to secure companies and projects that have turned out to be
very economic. You see the opposite by some of the larger majors having
reached, in the past, too far and too aggressively and paid too high a
price for projects that did not turn out to be as economic. I’m very
bullish on New Gold, and I do hope it’s the beginning of a trend.
TGR: What are your thoughts on silver?
BL: I’m very bullish on silver. Silver offers optionality to
gold. Silver equities offer optionality to silver, so you can really get
a lot of bang for the buck through some really well-run,
well-positioned silver producers.
I like
Silver Standard Resources Inc. (SSO:TSX; SSRI:NASDAQ),
SilverCrest Mines Inc. (SVL:TSX.V; SVLC:NYSE.MKT),
Endeavour Silver Corp. (EDR:TSX; EXK:NYSE; EJD:FSE) and
Great Panther Silver Ltd. (GPR:TSX; GPL:NYSE.MKT).
There is a nice selection of companies out there on the smaller end of
the scale, companies that have good, solid production growth profiles.
TGR: Do you have a forecast or an expectation of silver prices?
BL: Not to any decimal places, but silver will track gold. And
silver will move more quickly than gold in whatever direction gold is
headed. I’m bullish on gold, so I have to be bullish on silver.
TGR: Across the industry, pundits are talking about the death
of the junior mining sector. Is the death of the junior mining sector
exaggerated?
BL: I don’t think the junior sector is dead, although it may
be comatose. The thing that will surprise the people who are waiting for
further and further levels of capitulation in the junior market is how
quickly this market can wake up. I’ve seen worse days. If you look in
the late 1990s and even the very early 1990s or late 1980s, you’ll see
times when the market was comparatively worse off. In those days, the
financing infrastructure was limited relative to where it is today.
Since then, capital markets have matured. With the money available from
the previous rounds of QE, a lot of money is available to come into the
junior market when that market turns around.
TGR: Positives include financial infrastructure, a large investor community, positive fundamentals and money on the sidelines.
BL: Absolutely, but first we need a turnaround in prices to start a rally.
TGR: For juniors, where do you see good risk-reward opportunities now?
BL: I see the best investments in the sector on a case-by-case
basis. I don’t do a lot of macro-level analysis because once you start
off with the big picture, then drill down to a more focused picture and
down to the project level, there are lots of places to make false
assumptions. Rather than top down, I like to take things on a
story-by-story basis and see if a company, particularly in the juniors,
has a shot at finding an economic deposit. That analysis is somewhat
independent of the global economic picture. A good deposit or a great
deposit can overcome a lot of other problems.
With that said, I’m turning more bullish on uranium lately. After
looking at that story, I believe that we’re going to go into a supply
deficit toward the end of this year or early next year. That’s a very
powerful story that we’ll start seeing develop over the coming months.
TGR: The big player in uranium is
Cameco Corp. (CCO:TSX; CCJ:NYSE),
which has a large majority of the production globally. Apart from it,
most of the other players are explorers. Does that mean that you’re
interested in uranium explorers?
BL: To some degree, as I say, the ones that have very good
individual stories. The last time we had a really rollicking bull market
in uranium and uranium juniors was about five years ago. They called it
uranimania back then, and any company that had some version of the word
uranium in its name and its property position could have a $20 million
($20M) market cap. The companies that have survived from then are the
better-run companies with the better prospects, and a number of them are
in production or are about to get into production. So they are very
highly exposed to the uranium price.
Uranium Energy Corp. (UEC:NYSE.MKT) is one, as is
Uranerz Energy Corp. (URZ:TSX; URZ:NYSE.MKT). On the exploration front are the
Alpha Minerals Inc. (AMW:TSX.V) and
Fission Uranium Corp. (FCU:TSX.V)stories. And I think that’s going to get much bigger. One of the better stories out there, and a story many are overlooking, is
Kivalliq Energy Corp. (KIV:TSX.V).
TGR: You’re not concerned, with the names that you just
mentioned, that near-term or short-term new production will come on-line
to flood the market?
BL: No, I don’t think that a big flood of new production will
swamp the market, at least not enough to overcome the deficit position.
The Highly Enriched Uranium agreement with Russia that’s ending this
year is going to take 15–20 million pounds off the market and most
likely put the global market into a significant deficit position.
TGR: Besides uranium, you like the fundamentals for platinum. Do you want to talk about that?
BL: I cover
Prophecy Platinum Corp. (NKL:TSX.V; PNIKF:OTCPK; P94P:FSE).
Where else in the world do you have a high-grade, bulk mineable,
platinum-palladium project? There isn’t one, especially in a
geopolitically reliable region. Wellgreen is an extraordinary project;
plus, platinum and palladium have positive fundamentals that are
tremendously powerful right now. The key to that project is that the
preliminary economic assessment (PEA) that came out was good and was
economic.
However, the size of the project assumed in the PEA presented
challenges. It was neither small and quick to production nor large
enough to bring long-term production forward. It was right in the middle
and showed a mine life of 37 years. For Wellgreen to work best, it
needs to be either much larger or significantly smaller than what the
PEA showed. In this market, I think it needs to rework that plan to show
it as a smaller project with lower capital expense and, therefore, a
much higher rate of return. With that said, it’s still very large and
still has the potential to grow significantly with this season’s drill
targets. The deposit has a lot of allure for a major company.
TGR: What would Wellgreen’s path to production look like?
BL: Prophecy itself could develop and finance a smaller
project focused on some higher-grade starter pit scenarios, and it has
gone a long way in trying to identify those starter pits. It could end
up joint venturing with a major to develop a slightly larger scenario or
it could get sold off to a major for a much larger scenario.
TGR: You also cover several companies with projects in Mexico. What are the highlights there?
BL: Mexico is a great place geologically and a fairly good
place politically. The country has a long history of mining and mining
laws are well established. The business climate helps companies work and
secure land title. Its more streamlined path to production is a great
benefit to the smaller producers. Mexico offers a lot of great
opportunities and many discoveries are yet to be found.
TGR: Any specific names?
BL: I like
Cayden Resources Inc. (CYD:TSX.V; CDKNF:NASDAQ).
For a junior, Cayden offers a lot to like, including a good share
structure and money in the bank. The company sold a small portion of its
project in the Guerrero Gold Belt to
Goldcorp Inc. (G:TSX; GG:NYSE)
for approximately $16M. That will fund exploration on its primary
projects for the next two years. One highlight is the El Barqueño
project, which is showing impressive trench results, including 21 meters
at 8.3 grams per ton. Cayden should be able to start drilling that
target in the near term.
TGR: You also watch companies in the Yukon. The latest Yukon
gold rush, which started in 2009, brought high expectations that haven’t
been fulfilled. Can you give us an update? Are there some exploration
opportunities that have stood the test of time?
BL: When the Yukon erupted with Underworld Resources Inc.’s Golden Saddle discovery,
Gold Newsletter
was the only publication to recommend Underworld, and we did it before
that discovery. It turned out to be a very profitable experience for our
readers. Along with a couple of other projects, Golden Saddle really
ignited a gold rush in the Yukon.
Along the way, there were some speed bumps. People didn’t realize how
long it takes to develop prospects and get them to drill-ready status.
In that environment, the shortened drill season affects project
speed—you can only explore one season a year. As a result, development
has taken longer, and it is much more difficult than people had
imagined. When you combine the slow project progress in the Yukon with
the correction in the junior market, the net result is that some
companies that have already made discoveries are selling for fractions
of what their ultimate worth will be.
One example of this is
Kaminak Gold Corp. (KAM:TSX.V)
with its Coffee project. At today’s prices, it represents real value.
Eventually, I believe it will be taken out at a multiple to today’s
price.
I’m interested in and have been recommending
Comstock Metals Ltd. (CSL:TSX.V)
as well. I’m a fairly large shareholder in the company. Comstock’s
project is interesting for many reasons, including that it may be an
extension off the same structure as Underworld’s Golden Saddle
discovery. It had interesting drill results last year. Comstock is
following up with its VG zone this year and, hopefully, will be able to
advance some of other targets to drill-ready status before the season is
over.
TGR: If investors were looking for, in the best possible
sense, the next Yukon or the next underappreciated region that has
potential to be a world-class district, where would they look?
BL: Let me share some of the key takeaways of going through a
few cycles in the precious metals market. One of the things we saw in
the early 1990s was the perception of a revolution of freedom across the
world. New regions opened to modern mineral exploration. Two examples
were Southeast Asia and Indonesia—and then came the Bre-X scandal.
Another example was Venezuela—and then came the leftist Hugo Chavez. The
Next Big Thing is a moving target. Success breeds, in some cases, envy
and expropriation. I stress to investors that they don’t need to be
pioneers—it’s the pioneers who get the arrows in the back. Investors
don’t have to take on added geopolitical risk when we have
well-positioned companies with proven deposits and proven exploration
teams that are selling at huge historic discounts.
TGR: Is there anything else you want to say?
BL: Looking at the general market, the concern I have right
now is that we’re beginning to see speculative demand in the West come
back into gold. We’re beginning to see some short covering by Western
speculators. While that is positive in the short term, we may see a
falloff in physical demand as we get into summer. I’m not sure that the
strong physical demand that we’re seeing now will be handed off in an
orderly fashion to the Western speculators. If so, we could have some
further weakness in gold going into midsummer. And that’s why I am
targeting around the end of July as a good time for investors to come
back into the market and pick up some bargains.
TGR: I noticed that you have expanded the scope of attendees
that you are welcoming to the next New Orleans Conference. As Father’s
Day approaches, can you talk about this?
BL: A few weeks ago, I was on the phone with
Frank Holmes,
the CEO of U.S. Global Investors, discussing ideas for the next New
Orleans Investment Conference. Frank came up with an idea that hit me
like a thunderclap: Let parents bring their kids to the conference for
free. I love the idea. This would encourage more attendees to bring
along their kids, to show them the benefits of free markets, expose them
to the constant threats to their liberty, reveal the hidden dangers of
on-going monetary debasement and teach them how to protect their money
and freedoms. I’m always searching for ways to expand our unique
experience and outlook to younger people who rarely get exposed to the
free market ideals that we promote.
We wrapped up the idea as a limited-time special opportunity between
Mother’s Day and Father’s Day, but I decided to extend it through the
end of June. And, incidentally, it also applies to children who want to
bring along their parents.
Interested investors need to call our offices at 800-648-8411 to take advantage of this special opportunity.
TGR: That’s a great way to get the next generation introduced to the investment markets. We look forward to speaking with you again.
BL: Thanks, it was great to speak with you.
With a career spanning three decades in the investment markets, Brien Lundin
serves as president and CEO of Jefferson Financial, a highly regarded
publisher of market analyses and producer of investment-oriented events.
Under the Jefferson Financial umbrella, Lundin publishes and edits Gold Newsletter,
a cornerstone of precious metals advisories since 1971. He also hosts
the New Orleans Investment Conference, the oldest and most respected
investment event of its kind.
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DISCLOSURE:
1) J. Alec Gimurtu conducted this interview for
The Gold Report and provides services to
The Gold Report as an independent contractor. He or his family own shares of the following companies mentioned in this interview: None.
2) The following companies mentioned in the interview are sponsors of
The Gold Report:
Silver Standard Resources Inc., SilverCrest Mines Inc., Great Panther
Silver Ltd., Cayden Resources Inc., Prophecy Platinum Corp. and Goldcorp
Inc. Uranerz Energy Corp. and Fission Uranium Corp. are sponsors of
The Energy Report. Streetwise Reports does not accept stock in exchange for its services or as sponsorship payment.
3) Brien Lundin: I or my family own shares of the following companies
mentioned in this interview: New Gold Inc., Fission Uranium Corp.,
Kivalliq Energy Corp., Uranerz Energy Corp., Prophecy Platinum Corp.,
Cayden Resources Inc., Kaminak Gold Corp. and Comstock Metals Ltd. I
personally am or my family is paid by the following companies mentioned
in this interview: None. My company has a financial relationship with
the following companies mentioned in this interview: None. I was not
paid by Streetwise Reports for participating in this interview. Comments
and opinions expressed are my own comments and opinions. I had the
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